Carl Zeiss Biogon T* 2.0/35mm ZM
Tuesday, November 22, 2011 at 17:17 ;)
Carl Zeiss Biogon 35mm F2.0 on Sony NEX-5NAfter much deliberation I've decided to use the NEX-5N primarily as a platform for a single manual focus prime. With a manual lens, photography becomes a more methodical process forcing me to think about where to place the focus each and every time I take a photo. It can only lead to greater awareness and control over the act of taking a picture, even if my hit rate decreases at first.
I don't really need another full system of lenses; I already have that for my Panasonic cameras. So it makes sense to use the Sony NEX-5N as a prime shooter; one good lens is enough. It has to be a good lens; an inferior lens negates the image quality advantage of Sony's excellent sensor. I'm not blown over by the Sony E-mount lenses that I have. They're OK, but nothing special. Sony's E-mount Zeiss 24mm F1.8 might end up being a capable lens, but it's priced at over 1000 Euros. Not too smart an investment while I'm not committed to the NEX system. My personal preference is also for a 50mm equivalent prime (around 35mm on the NEX).
;)
Carl Zeiss Biogon 35mm F2.0 on Sony NEX-5NLooking for a 35mm lens for the NEX, it soon became clear that compact M-mount lenses are best suited to the small NEX-5N body. I crossed Leica's M series lenses off my list due to the exorbitant prices the German company charges. In the end, I settled on the Zeiss Biogon 35mm F2.0 lens. It's relatively compact and light, eminently usable wide open and ever sharper stopped down. I also liked the character of images samples I'd seen online.
First indications - from the few photos I took today once the fog lifted - are that I'm not going to be disappointed. So I finally know what my daily NEX-5N kit will look like: the Zeiss Biogon as my main lens with the Sony 16mm pancake in my pocket for the odd time when I need something wider. Note to myself: next time figure out what specific lenses I want to use before purchasing a system camera.
;)
Screened │ NEX-5N + Carl Zeiss Biogon 35mm F2.0 │ 35mm F2.0 1/2000s ISO100
Biogon 35mm F2.0, Carl Zeiss, M-mount, Sony NEX-5N
Reader Comments (30)
Liking the ambience of that photo. Had never looked at this lens until you referenced it a week or so ago. Now that I have and seen more photos created with it, I am amazed. As a 70 on m43 and 50 on NEX, I may end up following you down this path. Now the only problem is that no one seems to sell them here... BTW, which adapter are you using? I've been using fotodiox with my FD and Nikons and they work great but they have been awful fits for m-mount lenses I've tested so far.
I haven't even tried it as a 70 yet, Steve. The Zeiss does have a lot of character as well as being very sharp. I'll have to do some controlled comparisons - like I would have found useful while I was researching the lens. But that will probably have to wait until after I return from Copenhagen. In the meantime, would you be interested in some RAW sample files taken with this camera/lens combination? That way it might be easier to decide if you really want to follow me down this path.
I'm using an eBay white box special adapter for NEX which had some play in it until I made some adjustments. But this is just to tide me over until my Metabones M to NEX adapter arrives from Hong Kong. The adpater I have for m43 is better than the cheap NEX adapter. It's branded Pixco and the fits snugly without being too tight.
Thanks for the reply. No hurries on that. It's not like those lenses are easy to buy here anyways.
p.s. I like your "note to self"...sometimes those things are difficult to discover on paper, though, since so much of this to specific to our own use cases, preferences and tolerances for quality and operational use :-)
Bjorn, I suspect that eventually you are going to want a very wide angle. The sensor is great in the 5N. I really like using the camera with Zeiss and Leica lens.
Joan
Steve,
Thanks, that makes me feel a little better.
Maybe you should take a trip to Amsterdam; I know a certain store that has one left :-)
Joan,
You're right; like you were when you first suggested Zeiss or that other brand that shall remain nameless for budgetary reasons. I had a look at both the Voigtlander 12/5.6 and the 15/4.5 where I picked up the Zeiss Biogon. I'd love to have one of those, but unfortunately that will have to wait.
Reading this blog is not good for one's budget! CV lenses open the world to better lenses and before you know it only Zeiss lenses are good enough and then eventually the nameless brand. Good thing those latter two brands' lenses hold their value well...probably because there is limited supply.
In all seriousness, I'm now looking at ZM 28/2.8 or 25/2.8 as well as a general purpose lens for dual use on m43 and then possibly eventually NEX. Let me know if you have any insight into these.
Also the 35/2 seems like it's the same physical length as the Nokton 25/0.95. Does it feel much more comfortable and smaller purely b/c of the lighter weight?
p.s. That disappearing act photo is very nicely composed! Great atmosphere that fog is providing.
Steve, your prophecy better not come true, or I won't survive long ;-) But the temptation to use manual focus lenses will remain at least until better native lenses come along, both technically and subjectively (how they draw). I did an informal comparison between the kit zoom and the Zeiss at 35mm today and the Zeiss has considerably better contrast and sharpness. That's to be expected of course, but it's interesting to see the magnitude of the difference. I won't post any comparisons until I've repeated the results, just to be sure I haven't done something wrong.
As to your lens choices, the obvious disadvantage of the ZM 15/2.8 and the 28/2.8 is the full stop slower maximum aperture for the same price (or more in the case of the 25/2.8) and weight. Assuming that performance on the NEX-5N sensor is just as good as the 35/2.0, then the rest of the equation is really about the effective focal length on either system. That's very personal. For me, I prefer slightly longer, more intimate focal lengths. So I like to shoot at 50 and 70mm; the ZM 35/2.0 is perfect for that. Of course 38mm/50mm and 42mm/56mm are just as valid. If we could have it all, the choice wouldn't be so difficult.
The Zeiss 35/2.0 is much smaller than it appears. I should have done a more useful size comparison. But I also thought that the Zeiss was larger than it is, so much so that I was pleasantly surprised when the salesman showed it to me for the first time. It is significantly lighter (225g + 35g adapter = 260g) than the CV 25/0.95 (410g) and my GF2 feels much more balanced with the Zeiss than with the Voigtlander. Personally, I found the 25mm Nokton too heavy for a small mirrorless camera. The ZM 35/2.0 is also almost 2cm shorter - including the adapter - and has a smaller barrel diameter. All in all quite a compact package.
Thanks for the comments about my photo.
I think this Zeiss path is a good one, except for maybe wider, where CV is quite good and tiny. The thing that's very compelling about Zeiss lens is that in absolute dollars the prices in many cases aren't that extremely different from CV. And from what I've seen throughout my research, contrast and sharpness are really nice and there's also just a character to the images from the Zeiss lenses. Plus my sense is that resale will be much better for Zeiss (except for the rare CV like 25/0.95). Thanks for the thoughts on the size "feeling" of the 35/2. I'm still probably leaning "wider" for my own use. The nice thing about the poor stock situaiton here is that it avoids any "impulse" buying. Also, Europe is great for many things but not for photo gear pricing. I guess you can't have good prices and good stock. As an aside, if you ever go back to the GH2 again, would love to hear your experiences with the 35/2 as a 70mm. That's a really nice portrait length.
Maybe not all things are equal with ZM lenses on NEX. Photozone.de shows 28/2.8 to be quite weaker vs 35/2. I wonder if wider just gets worse. Perhaps 35/2 is the sweet spot and you've found it...anyways, enough comments for a while. Thanks for all your thoughts.
No, Europe is not known for offering competitive prices. Competition isn't really a concept around here. Momentarily we have good stock, but that may change after the current financial crisis takes its toll. Then we'll all have to go to Asia or just save our money and use what we have :-) Keep me informed of what you end up getting. I appreciate your thought provoking comments as well.
Many thanks Bjorn...Your articles have just helped me a lot on deciding my next purchases (Hopefully - NEX7 + 35mm f2 Biogon)...Having only just discovered you in my search for info relating to the Zeiss 35mm F2 Biogon with a Sony Nex camera.
Downloaded your lovely 5N raw files to pixel peep (thanks again), the lens looks great with the 5N...I saw very little evidence of darkened (vignetted) corners when wide open at F2 that others have mentioned in reviews...Is that your findings as well? + What adapter do you recommend with this Set-Up?
Thanks again.
Glad to be of help, Barry. I had to rely on others for my information as well when I noticed the scarcity of sample images. That's why I uploaded the RAW files.
To be honest, I haven't noticed any vignetting with the Zeiss at at F2.0. It's possible that the NEX-5N has micro lenses that mitigate corner softness and vignetting. I would recommend holding off on your NEX-7 purchase until others have verified whether the NEX-7's sensor behaves the same way with M-mount lenses like the Zeiss Biogon. There are some indications that it may not (Steve Huff's site).
I'm using a Metabones LM-E mount adapter. It has a secure fit, is well made and allows the lens to focus at infinity (actually beyond). I haven't tried any others except a cheap eBay version which I wouldn't recommend. You could actually wiggle the lens back and forth until I made some minor changes to the adapter. Still not that secure though. Considering the price of the Zeiss, I'd rather go with something better.
Many thanks again Bjorn...The Metabones seems to be one of the better (if not the best) adapters out there....Good to here it focuses all the way to infinity, as I believe some cheaper adapters don't quite get there!
I had seen S Huff's review of Leica lenses on Nex7 and 5N...Although the 5N faired favourably, the Nex7 did not do quite so well as you say...But I did notice the 35mm F2 Biogon was supposed to be pretty neutral in colour balance according K Rockwell (http://www.kenrockwell.com/zeiss/zm/35mm-f2.htm ) and having seen some Nex7 with a 24-70 F2.8 Carl Zeiss (also another neutral colour balance lens) image samples over at ( http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/NEX7/FULLRES/NEX7FAR2CON2.HTM ) I am reasonably hopeful that all will be well with a Nex7/35mm f2 Biogon combination (I expect the problem is more to do with the colour balance of the Leica lenses themselves being better suited to Leica M cameras). I am sure a Whibal card and Raw processing would resolve any foreseeable problems in slight shifts of colour....But probably best to wait and see.
Once again thanks for all your help.
You are probably right, Barry and the NEX-7 will be fine with wider M-mount lenses. Color shifts aren't so difficult to correct, but if the corners turned out to be less sharp on the NEX-7, that would be a different matter. Given the cost of the NEX-7 and assuming that your budget is not unlimited, then I might just wait until the early adopters have reported back.
The CZ 24-70/2.8 is a DSLR lens whose rear element is not so close to the sensor as an M-mount lens. So it might not necessarily be an indication of how the Biogon 35/2.0 would perform on the NEX-7.
The NEX-5N is serving me very well. I will also keep most of my Micro Four Thirds gear for now. Towards late 2012 I will take another look at which of the two systems best meets my needs. If that ends up being the Sony system, then I can still purchase a NEX-7 or its successor. If I decide to stay with Micro Four Thirds, then I haven't spent so much money on a NEX-7.
As you say - I will wait and see what others have to say...Your right my budget nowadays is not unlimited!
I take your point with the CZ 24-70mm F2.8 being a DSLR lens, although the corners looked pretty super sharp to me on that particular image with the Nex7...It somewhat defeats the point of the Nex7 dragging around a kilo of glass!
We have very similar tastes in camera's and lenses you and me!
I am now selling my GF1's (To help fund Nex purchase + a single lens) and keeping my GH2 with just a few lenses as my lightweight 4/3's outfit - It's a good all rounder with decent video to boot.
With my long term view to eventually return back to Leica M camera's and Leica M lenses (+ CZ glass).
Thanks again for all your very helpful information and insight.
Great to meet a kindred spirit, Barry.
May I ask which m4/3 lenses you have and which ones you plan on keeping? I need to reduce my m4/3 kit as well. Currently I have the Lumix 7-14/4.0, 14/2.5, 20/1.7, 100-300/4.0-5.6, the Leica 45/2.8 macro and the M.Zuiko 45/1.8.
Maybe I can use the profits from any eventual sale to fund a Voigtlander 15/4.5 for my NEX-5N.
Hi Bjorn
First of all - I just wanted to say I love your B/W shots of India...You seemed to caught the joy of the people rather than their anguish, that is a refreshing change to see from most other peoples work.
(Love Salgado's work and commitment).
Yes I will just keep my GH2 and 7-14mm + 14-45mm (very light weight but quite capable for snap's/videoing etc).
Sold a GF1 with another GF1 on ebay...Sold 45-200mm (Poor lens IMHO)...Sold 20mm not because it was a poor lens but because to noisy (AF) for videoing.
I did once own the 15mm Heliar and 25mm Skopar Voigtlander lenses both were excellent value for money, small, lightweight and great quality on a Bessa film camera..Not the heft of my friends Leica 24mm elmarit....I personally feel my 7-14mm Lumix is on par despite it being a zoom with the 15mm CV lens...But not quite as good as the 25mm CV.
Have had many cameras/lenses in the past (film days) way to many to list all here and bore you to tears - Just a very small sample of some of them over the years...Leica M4 with 35mm Summilux (non Asph) + 21mm Elmarit...2 Number Leica M6's with 35mm (non Asph) + 50mm + 90mm all F2 Summicrons + 2 Number Leica R6.2's with 50mm and 90mm SLR Summicrons.
I also used to shoot medium format (Fuji 6x9 + Pentax 67 + Rollei SLX with CZ glass - outfits) + and Super Large Format Gandolfi's, Cambo, MPP - 5x4 + 10x8 + 14x11 with CZ, Rodenstock and Schneider glass.
I personally love B/W the best (probably as I am colour blind)...My Leica's never saw a color film ever!
Sold all my beloved Leica camera gear (At a great loss - I might add) because Leica never looked to be going the digital route...It was just before the M8 came out! - If I knew, I would of kept all my lenses and not bothered with buying a heavy old Canon 5D outfit...Hind sight is a wonderful thing...Not!
On another Note...NEX7 + 35mm F2 Biogon ZM....I did see this (you may of already seen it yourself).
Rob Skeoch Blog... http://thepicturedesk.blogspot.com/2011/10/sony-nex7-with-zeiss-m-mount-35mm-zm.html
@ F2.0 sample http://www.flickr.com/photos/sportsphotorob/6231916145/sizes/o/in/photostream/
@ F4.0 sample http://www.flickr.com/photos/sportsphotorob/6231917737/sizes/o/in/photostream/
@ F8.0 sample http://www.flickr.com/photos/sportsphotorob/6231919025/sizes/o/in/photostream/
The F8.0 looks fabulous in the corners as you would expect...So perhaps no need to worry with the Nex7/35mm F2 Biogon
I would be interested in your thoughts on the F2.0 and F4.0 images...especially the corners and the colour.
+ Many more Nex7 and CZ glass samples here...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sportsphotorob/page2/
Thanks again Bjorn
Barry, thanks for the kind words about my India photos. I did see a lot of joy in India. In a way it surprised me that many of the people seem happier than their Western counterparts who have everything. I guess we each interpret the world around us differently. As far as India goes, that is the place that inspired me more than any other I have visited.
Reducing your kit to the GH2, 7-14 and 14-45 sounds reasonable considering your interest in video. I would probably keep the 20 and the 7-14 since I don't shoot video. At some point though, I have to make the decision which system to continue with. Before I do that, I'd like to know more about how M lenses perform on the NEX-7 as well as what Panasonic and others have planned for Photokina next year. Leica will also be announcing a mirrorless system, but that will be beyond my budget anyway.
You've used a lot more interesting and varied cameras than I have ever seen, never mind used. I started with Minolta film SLRs before moving to my first digital compact camera in 2003. Not very exciting, but I did start with a manual focus only system. I can understand the regret you feel at having sold off your Leica gear. If we had known what Leica would do 7 years ago we could also have predicted the stock market or even winning lottery numbers. Then nothing would matter so much. But that's unfortunately not the case and all we have is hindsight :-)
As to the NEX-7 + Zeiss 35/2.0 samples. That's the million dollar question. My gut feeling teels me that the corners are a little better on the NEX-5N. Compared to these NEX-7 samples, it seems as if the drop off in image quality at F2.0 and F4.0 in the corners is less severe and abrubt on the NEX-5N. But I'm really going out on a limb here based on very little information. I'd wait for a proper side by side comparison.
Nice to hear from you, Barry.
The 14-45mm lens is pretty good all rounder for a zoom, although not a fast lens it behaves admirably for both video (it's quite AF) and stills...No way it is as sharp as my old 20mm but then it's more a jack of all trades lens than a master of one focal length...I must admit I did regret somewhat parting with the pocketable 20mm...But I am happy to sit on the fence for a while longer before taking the plunge on another fast prime lens again with a larger sensor than the GH2.
I agree the corners do not look as good on those samples with the Nex7/35mm Biogon combo @ F2 and @ F4 as your 5N/35mm Biogon combo (when comparing it to your raw samples at the same apertures!)...Although I have no complaints with the F8 sample of Robs.
It could also be that you just have a better sample of the lens than Rob Skeoch.
Out of interest, do you know how well your lens performs on a FF Leica M9 in terms of colour balance shift deviating from normal and corner sharpness?...I did read on Digiloyd the 35mm F2 Biogon was his preference lens over the 35mm Summilux and Summicron which made a very interesting read...Especially as I had owned (and rated) both of those lenses at one time, although mine were both non aspheric's they were still stellar lenses none the less.
http://diglloyd.com/articles/LeicaM/LeicaM-ZeissZM35f2.html
Just seen this latest posted instalment of Nex7 on Luminous Landscape...As it is very relevant to what we have been chatting about....Good and bad news I guess. It looks like you were right the Nex7 sensor behaves not as good as Nex5N in the corners...Colour and vignetting can be fixed using “Cornerfix” But the lost corner resolution/sharpness that the Nex7 exhibits with WA legacy M mount lenses is more pronounced than Nex5N!....See link below....
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_nex_7_rolling_review.shtml#legacy
That is a shame and a pretty big turn off of the Nex7, unless I choose to use a DSLR lens (ie. CZ 24-70mm, CZ 16-50mm etc...With that bulky LA-EA2 adapter) where the rear element is further away and less acute an angle in the corners from the sensor than a WA M mount lens is...Or I could just get the 5N like you and be done with it all...Or save up for a M10!
"In a way it surprised me that many of the people seem happier than their Western counterparts who have everything. I guess we each interpret the world around us differently"...HOW TRUE...Riches and cameras do not equate to true happiness, we westerners just fool ourselves that they do!...I am off to make a pinhole camera out of a cardboard box – LOL.
Barry,
Sitting on the fence makes some sense as I think we'll see a more radical step forward in technology next year. As to the Lumix 20mm pancake, I think that will be the last Micro Four Thirds lens I would part with. I've simply gotten more favourite shots with that lens than any other. Images from that lens don't have any special character, but its compact size, bright aperture and versatile focal length means I can get the shot in a wide variety of conditions. The closest thing the NEX systems offers that could replace the Lumix pancake is the €/$ 1000 Zeiss 24mm F1.8. Hmmmm. The 14-45 was indeed one of the best kit zooms ever made; worth hanging onto if you have a good copy.
Thanks for the link to the Digiloyd article. I hadn't seen that before making my decision. Not that I could have plunked down more than twice as much for the Summicron, never mind the Summilux. I didn't delve into how the Zeiss Biogon 35/2.0 handles on the M9's full frame sensor.
I saw Michael Reichman's article on the performance of wide angle M-lenses on the NEX-7 compared to the NEX-5N. I would consider the colour vignetting more of a nuisance as it can be fixed, but the loss in corner resolution is more problematic. It remains to be seen exactly how much that is at larger apertures and whether the loss is overly relevant. A significant loss in corner performance would be unfortunate given the very harmonious performance on the 5N sensor. The loss in IQ with WA M-lenses on the NEX-7 makes choosing between the two bodies very difficult. You can either have the (presumably) better ergonomics and user interface of the NEX-7 or the 5N's sensor that's a better match for lenses like the Zeiss Biogon 35/2.0.
Using a DSLR lens on the NEX-7 is an option, although not for someone like me looking for a compact, light and unobtrusive kit. Nor is an M10 realistic, though perhaps I could add a pinhole camera to my collection as well. Perhaps the philosophy of being happy with what you have might also point to a solution :-)